Catarina Martins debuted in debates against Gouveia e Melo this Sunday, November 23rd. In the first few seconds, he heard a first attack from Gouveia e Melo, who was coming from a debate with Cotrim de Figueiredo the previous week. “There is an ocean of differences between us”, stated the admiral, saying that Catarina Martins looks at the Constitution in an “asymmetrical way”, considering it “Marxist”while claiming to be “suprapropriate and for the market and for private property.”
Catarina Martins responded by backtracking on Gouveia e Melo’s lunch with André Ventura before the Chega president’s decision to advance to Belém. “No one diminishes me for being elected or for the choices I make. It’s true that I’m not going to talk about the extreme right and the impact it has on this government. I’m here to talk about the truth, I will scrupulously comply with the Constitution. Gouveia e Melo decided to go to lunch with Ventura. This is a lack of independence. He defended the tycoons when he decided to go have lunch with them. You shouldn’t have lunch with these people“, riposte.
Economy marked biggest differences
The theme returned later on. In the economy, the main area where the candidates differed. The admiral said that the “responses to growth for the economy do not come from ideologies that did not work in Portugal. That’s why we have 20% of the population on the poverty line”, he reiterated. “I don’t defend authoritarian systems. It’s not me”, reacted Catarina Martins, criticizing the stance of Gouveia e Melo, who spoke of “derivations of Marxism”, joining the former leader of the Bloco de Esquerda to the PCP. “We have already freed the post office, aviation, energy to private individuals. I don’t understand where Gouveia and Melo are. What is it to free the economy from?”, asked Catarina Martins, listening to the admiral defend the liberation “of the economy, fees and taxes.”
Catarina Martins tried to point out differences in Gouveia and Melo’s reasoning throughout several interventions. “He has already defended the smaller State. He has already defended more flexibility in labor law”, he stated.
“Defending the most effective State is not defending what the Liberal Initiative defends, of greatly reducing it”responds Gouveia e Melo, who says he does not share “the solution of Bloco de Esquerda and Catarina Martins in housing because individuals do not have to solve the problem.”
Several mentions by the MEP to former PS leaders
As for the real risks of democracy, Catarina Martins argued that “Justice must be up to the task” and that there is a “degradation of political debate, with hatred, extremism, indecency.” But he states that it is in the economy that the population loses credit in the political system. “In housing, we have the most inflated houses in Europe. We all have the right to a home. Democracy is discredited when there is no answer. Jorge Sampaio is a great example of cohesion. Mário Soares was also in the communities. We cannot continue to think that we depend on tourism. Who pays for the social system? We have a very unfair system. Large companies flee with 2.9 billion euros. That’s why I say I wouldn’t have lunch with tycoons. I choose my side,” he says. He mentioned Sampaio three times and recalled Mário Soares’ action to combat slums, formerly elected by the Socialist Party, who have been praised from the left to the center right and which can be seen as a wink to the electorate that could belong to António José Seguro.
Labor law and health with common points
Martins attacked the labor bill that “makes it precarious and does not provide conditions for the future of young people, Gouveia e Melo agreed that “contract times should not change” and that the labor code “changed two years ago”, not justifying so many changes. Also in the National Health Service, where the former leader of the Bloc stressed that “we need to change careers so that doctors stay in the SNS” and where she called for “autonomy and fewer political appointments”, she stressed that Portugal cannot “continue giving money to private individuals”.
The admiral criticizes the central organization, calls for entities dispersed throughout the territory to overcome the rush to hospitals, but agrees on the SNS as an essential point. “In Health there is no lack of resources, but there is a lack of internal organization. We could put all our resources into it and we wouldn’t be successful. As a sailor, I say that we have to define a course and it is not clear in this government. I defend this role, in which the State is essential. I defend this one more, it can be hybrid, but the State has to guarantee the quality National Health Service”he adds.
Dangers of extremism and dissolution of Parliament
Gouveia e Melo projects “completely in favor of government stability. “I wouldn’t use a mechanism like that, of dissolving Parliament, just for me. Only if it were very serious. I even have difficulty seeing that happening. Only in cases of an extremist government would they try to change the Constitution in practice”, he states, acknowledging that there is “an extremist candidate” for Belém.
Catarina Martins says that the same use only in “limit situations”, but regrets the lack of government agreements with various forces. “I am critical of the way Marcelo read and saw who the forces with the most votes in Parliament were. It was a tactical game and the blackmail of going to elections is promoted. Basically, a more restrained use of power is needed, only as a last resort. Sampaio called elections when Guterres did not feel capable. He did it well”, he declared.
In court, Gouveia e Melo protested the wiretapping of António Costa and politicians without these being announced and, rather, carried out by system. “We allowed a surveillance system to be built that is not perfectly controlled. In the separation of powers, we cannot allow conditioning by the judicial system to the political system. The clarifications didn’t leave me at ease”, he considered.
Defense again accentuates differences
Finally, Defense. The admiral refused to “step back” on the NATO issue and is grateful for the support of the United States of America, without explaining further in relation to Ukraine. “Without the USA we would have problems. We can have a commitment further East, but we have to comply with what the countries agree”he warned, criticizing the “cynicism and incoherence” of Catarina Martins, who says she defended demilitarization.
“The alliance with the USA does not guarantee the protection of Europe. You can see this in what Trump says now. Trump gets rare materials, Putin gets everything he wants”he said, criticizing the opponent’s disparate lines: “I heard Gouveia e Melo say that he was against 5% Defense and that this favors the war industries and I agree. I never defended unilateral disarmament and I don’t forget that Jorge Sampaio stopped young people from going to the Iraq War.”
This Monday, on RTP, it is Jorge Pinto and Cotrim de Figueiredo’s turn to debate.