The debate between António Filipe and António José Seguro on TVI tonight, December 20th, began with two topics on the agenda: the archiving of the preventive investigation into Luís Montenegro and the accountability of the presidential candidates. Before answering the first question, Seguro praised his debate companion. “[Quero] say that I have great personal esteem and great admiration for António Filipe, and find us here in this circumstance today”, he began by saying.
In the first answer, both were consensual and generic, but in the second topic some divergences arose, which became more accentuated throughout the 20 minutes of debate. “My client list is here on this sheet, it is not anynot that I don’t know how to do anything, because I was a deputy with great honor, I was a diversity teacher for 20 years, but, in fact, I have no clients”, said the communist.
Safe, who had promised to publish his list this Saturdaysent it to Sunday or Monday, justifying that it needs authorization from customers. At the same time, he defended himself against the fact that, unlike his opponent, he had clients. “In 2014 I stopped having any political activity and had to go about my life, I had to go work as a teacher and I created my micro-companiesI have companies and, therefore, I also want everything to be clear”, he summarized. According to the candidate, there are around “four or five clients” and it is “impossible to disclose them all”, as they sell wine and olive oil.
This was followed by José Alberto Carvalho’s question about the polls, more specifically addressed to António Filipe: “What happened to the left-wing electorate?” The communist’s response was short: “The left-wing electorate is there and, therefore, will be able to demonstrate in the next elections”.
The journalist insisted on further reflection: “But how much is this electorate worth?”. The response was similar to the previous one: “We’ll see about that. At the moment there is 0 to 0 and, therefore, the votes will be counted on the 18th at night and, therefore, voters will have to choose between the various candidates and their political positioning”, he argued.
António Filipe highlighted that he presented himself “from the first hour as the leftist candidate that was missing”. He explained that he considers Seguro to be a “neoliberal consensus” and that he “profoundly departs” from this position.
The questions continued to focus on the communist: “Do you maintain this reading that António José Seguro is not a left-wing candidate?“. The answer was affirmative, blaming the opponent (and Marques Mendes) for the “public policies of recent decades” that “led the country to a situation with which I do not identify.”
Among these situations, he cited the “subordination of political power to economic power”, the non-contestation of privatizations “which have alienated much of the public patrimony and placed the fundamental levers of our economy in foreign hands”, accusing the same privatizations of being “responsible for a country with low wages and workers’ rights that are deeply weakened.”
It was then that he mentioned the labor package, highlighting that the scenario would be “even worse” if changes to the law went ahead. With these arguments, he highlighted thatand “a candidacy identified with the rights and interests of workers was needed, for an increase in wages and the realization of fundamental social rights”.
Useful vote, when?
José Alberto Carvalho described a possible second round scenario with “a right-wing candidate and a center-right candidate”. The communist replied that the concern is the first round. “Right now, I’m worried about getting through to the second round. I’ve been saying that the second round, at this moment, doesn’t exist without me, because we’re going to compete in the first round”, he analyzed.
After these minutes focused on António Filipe’s ideas, it was José Seguro’s turn to answer the question about what happened to the left-wing electorate. The candidate preferred to talk about the useful vote: “In these elections, the useful vote is in the first round, not in the second round”he stressed.
And he launched a provocation: “I am convinced that António Filipe, I do him justice, would not sleep well from the 18th to the 19th if the election results were between André Ventura and Marques Mendes going to the second round. I wouldn’t sleep, I’m convinced of that,” he said.
An argument about the differences between himself and his opponent followed, but in an indirect way. “I am convinced that voters on the moderate left and even on the center right, who are watching us at the moment, understand the importance of concentrating votes on a single left-wing candidate who can pass to the second round. Because this is not only useful, it is necessary for our country”, he detailed.
Seguro argued about the reasons that lead him to believe he is the candidate the Portuguese want, assuming he is “the only left-wing candidate”, but stating that he wants to be “the president of all Portuguese”. António Filipe interrupted and provoked, saying that his opponent had been waving to communist voters “in the last few days” and that “this reveals a great difficulty in convincing Socialist Party voters”.
At the same time, he accused him of “not being meat or fish” and “not saying anything leftist”, returning to the classification of “neoliberal consensus”. Seguro asked for an example of this “neoliberal consensus” and heard the December 11 labor strike in response.
More differences
Another difference between the two left-wing candidates became clear. Seguro defended “the autonomy and independence of the union movement”, while the communist reported that, that day, the “only activity” was being alongside the workers.
They ended up agreeing on the workers’ problems, but disagreed on how to solve them. António Filipe accused his opponent of having “coincident” ideas with Passos Coelho. Seguro quickly countered: “Urban myth”.
The debate continued with more accusations about the Troika period and the economy. The former socialist deputy reflected on another difference between the two, after being accused by his opponent of “not fighting the Troika” in the past. “Do you know what our difference is? For António Filipe, it is very easy to always be on the protest side. I don’t take that option. I, especially when the national interest and the defense of the Portuguese people are at stake, have an attitude, I would say, patriotic and left-wing”. The communist argued that his position in the Troika was one of “construction”.
The helpful vote, again
After several minutes of arguments by António Filipe about his vision of being a president, “that does not identify with this state of affairs and that is a factor of change in national political life, in accordance with the powers that the Constitution grants him”, Seguro returned to the scenario he foresees on the 18th, now directly.
“I praise the effort that António Filipe has made throughout this conversation, to try to justify the reason for his candidacy. But he will sleep poorly, from 18 to 19, if that night it is André Ventura and Marques Mendes who go through to the second round of the elections. This time, António Filipe, the useful vote, the necessary vote, is for my candidacy and in the first round. Because, realistically, António Filipe is not in a position to make it to the second round, he is not”these.
Furthermore, he presented himself as a “moderate left” candidate, implying that his opponent would not be one. “Voters who want someone from the left, from the moderate left, to be in the second round will be on me. Otherwise, António Filipe, with all due respect and sympathy, because your candidacy is friendly, the vote for you or for the other candidate, from the left to my left, is the same vote on the right”, he argued.
The communist defends exactly the opposite: “I consider that António José Seguro’s votes are in the same basket as those of Marques Mendes and Gouveia Melo.” With the debate coming to an end, Alberto Carvalho brought up an equally divisive topic: the war in Ukraine.
Seguro argued that “everything must be done” so that “Putin leaves the occupied lands in Ukraine, a position that António Filipe had great difficulty in reaching.” The candidate quickly responded: “You’re wrong, you’re wrong”, he repeated several times. With time running out, it remains unclear how deep the difference is between the candidates representing the two lefts.
Upcoming debates
Sunday, December 21st
Catarina Martins vs. Jorge Pinto (RTP)
Monday, December 22nd
Henrique Gouveia e Melo vs. Luís Marques Mendes (TVI)
amanda.lima@dn.pt